Editing Other element systems

For the way the element system currently works, see [[:Category:Type]]

== Broader element system ==

Having just five elements is somewhat limiting, even with dual-element monsters to represent ice, ghosts, and so on. 

A system with 10, 12 or even 15 elements would give us more options, and potentially make combat a more interesting tactical challenge as a set of four techniques is less likely to threaten all opposing monsters. 

== Older ideas ==

=== Other uses for the Aether type ===

Currently the Aether type is used for techniques where the element is irrelevant because they do no damage. It could also be used as the type for attacks that take the element(s) of its user. 

It could also be assigned to monsters that are strong and weak against nothing. 

=== Heaven and Darkness types ===

[https://forum.tuxemon.org/thread.php?id=140 Original thread]

Two new types would fit well into our matrix:

* '''[[Heaven]]:''' For flying, divine, weather-based, legendary, heroic, light, fairy and magical creatures and techniques.
* '''[[Darkness]]:''' For poisonous, evil, undead, fateful, sorcerous, shadowy, frightening and sinister creatures and techniques.

The two extra types would fit in as such:

* Heaven is weak against Water, as rain swells the waters and wind whips it up and the Moon gives the ocean motion
* Water is weak against Darkness, as darkness fell upon the face of the deep, and the depths of the oceans are dark
* Heaven is strong against Fire, as wind and rain extinguish fire, and the Sun eclipses mere flames, and fire was a gift of the gods to humankind
* Fire is strong against Darkness, as fire lights the dark, warms the spirit and lends courage
* Darkness is weak against Earth, as it falls harmlessly on the planet every nighttime
* Earth is weak against Heaven, as the Earth supports the heavens
* Darkness is strong against Metal, as humans are afraid of the dark and metals can dull and rust
* Metal is strong against Heaven, as cold iron kills fairies, science and skepticism undermines faith and superstition and iron from meteors can be turned against the sky
* Heaven and Darkness would be strong against each other

With the current five types, there are a lot that fit quite awkwardly. Wood is a catch-all for nature spirits and flying things that could better go to Heaven, and Metal has abstract beings, human-like beings, corrupted or weird things, etc. It would balance out the categories too: many in Wood and Fire could go to Heaven and many in Metal could go to Darkness.

Under my proposed system Fire (0.5 vs Earth, 2 vs Metal, 2 vs Darkness) would be very close to Darkness (0.5 vs Earth, 2 vs Metal, 2 vs Heaven). In that case, you could instead make Darkness super-effective against Wood, as living things need light, and Wood super-effective against Heaven (not sure why, though ... )

''tamashihoshi added:''

We have the 5 elements "wood", "fire", "water", "metal", "earth"; these are natural. The natural tuxemon belong to these types.

When the humans came, they brought something new ... a soul, which can behave good or evil. They have morality.

Soon, a new wheel of elements was added, the balance of nature was changed. "heaven" and "darkness", "good" and "bad", "moral" and "corruption" ... "cathedral" and "bazaar".

Soon, artificial tuxemon were created. The natural tuxemon had to live with the changes the humans brought. Since then, tuxemon adopted the types "heaven" and "darkness".

== Secondary types ==
[https://forum.tuxemon.org/thread.php?id=81 Original thread]

All tuxemon would have a primary type, and they may also have a secondary type.

''Leo suggested:''

* Repair
* Elemental
* Error

''Sanglorian suggested:''

* Psychic feeds Ghost
* Ghost inspires Fighting (e.g. spirit ancestors)
* Fighting can't reach Flying/[[Wind]]
* Wind blows futilely against Rock
* Rock is repelled by the forcefield of Psychic

* Psychic controls Fighting
* Fighting breaks Rock (like a strike that breaks a block)
* Rock entombs Ghost
* Ghost follows Wind
* Wind ducks around Psychic

I'll be the first to admit that it lacks the simplicity and obviousness of the original Wu Xing! And we probably don't need Earth, Rock AND Metal.

== Technique-only and monster-only types ==
[https://forum.tuxemon.org/thread.php?id=81 Original thread]

You could have a Poison move type despite no tuxemon having the Poison type. It could be super-effective against Wood and Earth and not very effective against Metal and Water. That would reflect that many attacks are poisonous, but having a poisonous attack doesn't make you immune to other poisons. 

* Sound - x2 vs Water, 1/2 vs Metal (sound waves are amplified by water; metal is a type of music)
* Electric - x2 vs Water, 1/2 vs Earth (conductivity, grounding)
* Wind - x2 vs Wood, 1/2 vs Fire (wind often topples trees, but only fans flames)
* Psychic - x2 vs Metal, 1/2 vs Water (psychics bend metal spoons, but water draws them when they dowse for it)

Or you could have Flying type tuxemon, but no Flying moves. They might have 1/2 from Earth moves but x2 from Fire moves.

[http://telefang.wikia.com/wiki/Habitat_types Telefang 2] is an example of a game with technique types (Fire, Machine, Wind, etc) that are different to the monster types (Grassland, Mountain, Sky, etc).

== Subtypes ==
[https://forum.tuxemon.org/thread.php?id=81 Original thread]

''Alchemist observes:''

Metal, for example, also encompasses Undeath and psychic powers. How would one understand that for mechanics and lore purposes, the zombie, wizard and tank are all the same element? What is there to bridge that gap? That's not to say it can't be done, but it is tricky. Careful attention to secondary types could do it- for example, ALL undead are also part poison?   But then, this means that all undead-themed teams would have to be monotype, which limits design space.

What if the five primary elements were like central element schools, with subtypes for creatures beneath that?

So, a trainer of the Wood school could use animals and plants, and plant-animals and wind-plants. The "Animal" type would be it's own thing, as would the "Plant" type and "wind" type, and they could mix. But at their core, they are part of the Wood type and have some things in common. Maybe they all share the same resistances, but the weaknesses of the subtypes differ?

== Elements/types in [[Related Projects]] ==

{| class="wikitable"
! Tuxemon (dual types included) !! Friends with Monsters !! OPMon !! Catch Challenger !! Floraverse
|-
| Aether ||  || Neutral || Normal || 
|-
| Wood ||  || Vegetal || Plant || 
|-
| Fire || Fire || Burning || Fire || Fire
|-
| Earth || Earth || Ground || Ground || Earth
|-
| Metal ||  || Metal || Steel || 
|-
| Water || Water || Liquid || Water || Water
|-
| Lightning ||  || Electron || Electric || Storm
|-
| Frost ||  || Cold || Ice || Ice
|-
| Toxin ||  || Toxic || Poison || Poison
|-
| Vermin ||  || Bug ||  || 
|-
| Cosmic ||  ||  ||  || Spirit
|-
| Battle ||  || Fight || Fight || 
|-
| Psionic ||  || Mental || Psy || Psi
|-
| Water-Wood ||  ||  ||  || 
|-
| Darkness ||  ||  ||  || 
|-
| Heaven || Air || Sky || Bird || Air
|-
|  || Light ||  ||  || Light
|-
|  || Energy ||  ||  || Plasma
|-
|  ||  || Bad ||  || 
|-
|  ||  || Dragon ||  || 
|-
|  ||  || Ghost || Spectre || 
|-
|  ||  || Magic ||  || 
|-
|  ||  || Mineral || Stone || [[Crystal]]
|-
|  ||  ||  ||  || Acid
|-
|  ||  ||  ||  || Lava
|-
|  ||  ||  ||  || Aura
|-
|  ||  ||  ||  || Cloud
|-
|  ||  ||  ||  || Clay
|-
|  ||  ||  ||  || Sand
|-
|  ||  ||  ||  || Sound
|-
|  ||  ||  ||  || Magnet
|}
@@ Line 2: / Line 2: @@
 == Broader element system ==
-''See also [[Monster design space]], [[Technique design space]]''
 Having just five elements is somewhat limiting, even with dual-element monsters to represent ice, ghosts, and so on.
 A system with 10, 12 or even 15 elements would give us more options, and potentially make combat a more interesting tactical challenge as a set of four techniques is less likely to threaten all opposing monsters.
-Here's a proposal from Sanglorian for 13 elements. Monsters would have one or two elements, but techniques would have a maximum of one element (except as a special feature, perhaps).
-{| class="wikitable"
-! !! !! Target  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!
-|-
-|  ||  || Earth || Fire || Frost || Heroic || Lightning || Cosmic || Metal || Normal || Shadow || Sky || Venom || Water || Wood
-|-
-| '''Technique''' || Earth [[File:24px Element6.png]] ||  || 2 ||  ||  || 2 ||  ||  ||  ||  || 0.5 ||  ||  || 0.5
-|-
-|  || Fire [[File:24px Element1.png]] || 0.5 || 0.5 || 0.5 ||  ||  ||  || 2 ||  ||  ||  || 2 || 0.5 || 2
-|-
-|  || Frost [[File:Ice-cube.png]] || 2 ||  || 0.5 ||  ||  ||  || 0.5 ||  || 0.5 || 2 ||  || 0.5 || 2
-|-
-|  || Heroic [[File:S Light01.png]] ||  ||  || 2 ||  ||  || 0.5 ||  || 2 || 2 ||  || 0.5 ||  ||
-|-
-|  || Lightning [[File:24px Element3.png]] || 0.5 ||  ||  ||  || 0.5 ||  || 2 ||  ||  || 2 ||  || 2 || 0.5
-|-
-|  || Cosmic [[File:I Sapphire.png]] ||  ||  ||  || 2 ||  ||  ||  ||  || 0.5 ||  || 2 ||  ||
-|-
-|  || Metal [[File:24px Element5.png]] || 2 || 0.5 ||  ||  ||  || 2 || 0.5 ||  ||  ||  ||  || 0.5 ||
-|-
-|  || Normal [[File:Tusk.png]] ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  || 0.5 ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  ||
-|-
-|  || Shadow [[File:S Light03.png]] || 0.5 ||  ||  || 0.5 ||  || 2 ||  ||  ||  || 2 ||  ||  ||
-|-
-|  || Sky [[File:Feather .png]] || 2 || 0.5 ||  || 2 ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  || 2
-|-
-|  || Venom [[File:S_Poison01.png]] || 0.5 ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  || 0.5 || 2 ||  ||  || 0.5 || 0.5 || 2
-|-
-|  || Water [[File:24px Element2.png]] ||  || 2 || 0.5 ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  || 0.5 || 0.5
-|-
-|  || Wood [[File:I Leaf-24.png]] || 2 || 0.5 ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  ||  || 0.5 || 2 || 0.5
-|}
-Other options include:
-* Removing Sky
-* Splitting Shadow into Trickery and Specter
-* Adding Dragon or Kaiju
-* Splitting Heroic into Martial and Light
-* Moving Light into a different element, e.g. Metal (reflection), Lightning, Normal or Sky.
-==== Same Element Extra Damage ====
-For consideration: If a monster of a particular type uses an attack of a type they have, they do an additional 50% damage.
-==== Physical and energy sides to elements ====
-I like the idea that the element system can be a bit varied, so two Wood techniques might come from different power sources or have quite different themes. Here's some examples of how elements could have a physical or an energy/magical component:
-Earth: Ground vs Rock
-Heroics: Martial Arts vs Light
-Sky: Bird vs Wind
-Water: Fish vs Water
-Frost: Ice vs Cold
-Cosmic: Kaiju/Energy vs Psychic
-Wood: Plant vs Nature Magic (or Venom?)
-Metal: Metal vs ? (Robotics? Lightning? Light?)
-Normal: Normal vs Sound
-Shadow: Trickery vs Shadow Magic/Specter (or Venom?)
-As you can see I was struggling to find a place for Venom as a distinct element in this division - but that's not to say we should necessarily get rid of it because it would be a somewhat awkward fit elsewhere too.
 == Older ideas ==
@@ Line 242: / Line 169: @@
 |  ||  ||  ||  || Magnet
 |}
-[[Category:Proposed content]]